Alan Bibey on Herschel Sizemore, “Uncle Herschel” and the Legacy of Bluegrass Mandolin
Some musicians leave behind recordings.
Others leave behind a style.
The truly special ones leave behind generations of players who continue carrying their music forward.
For decades, Herschel Sizemore was one of those musicians.
Known for classics like Rebecca, Back in Business, and Joyce’s Waltz, Sizemore’s playing combined precision, bounce, melody, and unmistakable tone. While many bluegrass fans recognize his name, those who knew him best often speak even more highly of the man than the musician.
That makes Episode 314 of the Mandolins and Beer Podcast especially meaningful.
Alan Bibey joins Daniel Patrick to discuss his new single “Uncle Herschel,” a heartfelt tribute to his friend, mentor, and musical hero.
The recording features an all-star cast that includes Sierra Hull, Ronnie McCoury, Ron Stewart, and others in a celebration of one of bluegrass music’s most influential yet often underappreciated mandolin voices.
But this episode becomes much more than a conversation about a new recording.
Bibey shares stories about learning directly from Sizemore, studying tunes note-for-note, playing vintage Loar mandolins in Herschel’s living room, and preserving the musical traditions passed down from one generation of bluegrass musicians to the next.
It’s a conversation about mentorship, musicianship, integrity, and the responsibility of keeping great music alive.
Essential Herschel Sizemore Listening
Include:
- Rebecca
- Back in Business
- Joyce’s Waltz
- Tacoma
- Essex’s Eagle
Full Transcript below:
Speaker A:
Hey everybody, this is Daniel Patrick and this is episode number 314 of the Mandolins and Beer Podcast, brought to you in part by my favorite website, the Mandolin Cafe. How’s everybody doing? Just a reminder, you could support this podcast for as little as $1 a month over there on the Patreon. It helps this podcast go a long way and I truly appreciate it. You can also support it by buying merch. My merch store is updated with some new MTV style shirts that I’m super happy of and I’ll be doing if you’re planning on ordering some. I’m gonna be in Ireland for two weeks and I’ll be leaving Thursday. So my last shipment that I’ll be sending out will be Wednesday next week, which is looking at a calendar the 15th. Then after that it will be two weeks before I’m back, so. And if you’re in Ireland, please come on out and see the show as part of the Argyle Arts Festival in Ardora. I think I’m saying that right. Caldif and Letterkenny actually doing a live radio show tonight. It’ll be airing at 5:00pm or 5:30 Eastern Time on High country radio, I believe it is. Anyway, yeah, I’m super excited to go to Ireland and play there. So some pretty, some pretty sweet clubs. My guest this week, just one of the best people, Alan Bybee, and he just put out a brand new single called Uncle Herschel and it’s got Sierra hall and Ronnie McCurry. So as you can imagine, it’s incredible. The story behind it is even more incredible. And you know, Herschel Sizemore played a pretty big role in Alan’s life and we, we talk about that. So basically this episode is kind of a bit, a bit of a tribute to Herschel Sizemore in a way. And in this single by Alan is just, just incredible. So I think you’re gonna enjoy it. It’s streaming everywhere. I have links there. And then of course I’ll have links to Alan’s website and he’s got his camp coming up and he’s got a very special guest, but I’m not gonna say it because he says it on the episode. So stick around for that. I’m gonna jump into the sponsors here and, and then, yeah, I’m going to get into some woodsheding to get ready for Ireland. Peghead Nation. With Peghead Nation streaming video courses in mandolin, guitar, fiddle, banjo, ukulele and bass. You learn bluegrass, old time and other styles from some of the most talented players and instructors in roots music. People like Sharon Gilchrist, Joe K. Walsh, Mike Compton, John Reichman, Aaron Weinstein, Marla Fiebis, Chad Manning, Ian Khoury and Ethan Satiawan. Actually Ethan has a standalone course that I just saw that is available and on there for a one time fee. But then you have access to all the materials. But they’re, they’re incredible. The courses always include high quality multi angle video lessons, downloadable notation to tab, plenty of tracks to play along with, and plenty of tunes and songs to play. Join any of Peghead Nation’s video courses now. You get your first month for free. 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Includes all of the accessories and books to go with Them all instruments are inspected and set up for easy playability and their down to earth and knowledgeable staff are there to help. Heading into their 54th year, their family owned and operated their award winning. They ship worldwide and you can Visit them anytime. Elderly.com. all right, let’s get into this episode with Alan Bybey. I. This one’s just great. It just. This is what the. The bluegrass world is all about. Learning from the people who came before you and then passing on that information the best you can to the next generation to help it live on. And I think what Alan did here with Herschel is a great example of what’s happened a lot in this world and it’s why I love this music so much. So I hope you enjoy this episode and have a fantastic week. Cheers, everybody. All right, it is always a pleasure to catch up with my next guest here, fellow South Carolina resident, just all around great guy, Ellen Bybey. How’s it going, buddy?Speaker B:
Going great, Daniel. Always glad to be with you, buddy.Speaker A:
Yeah, I always love catching up. And every now and then just text threading with you. You’re just. You’re so. It’s hard to believe. Like, you know, if you’d have told me seven years ago I started this podcast, I’d be able to text people like you, I’d have never believed it because I just, you know, I listened to your stu and, you know, and it’s just so legendary your. Your musical career. But you’re such a great guy too, and it’s just like it. Yeah, it’s just. It’s always good to catch up, buddy.Speaker B:
Oh, I appreciate it, buddy. Thank you too. So I feel the same way.Speaker A:
Thanks, man. So. And by the way, we should bring up to the camp. You have your camp that you do every year that’s coming up here and when. What are the dates this year?Speaker B:
October 14th through the 16th. We always start on a Wednesday night, which will be October 14th, and we go through a meet and greet thing. And then all the classes are on Friday, and I mean Thursday and Friday, which will be the 15th and 16th this year. And then also we’re adding 17th because everybody’s kind of always talked about wanting to stay in jam. So we’re going. We’re gonna stay and have some really structured jams and maybe a couple extra classes also on Saturday just for free this year, just to try it out. So it doesn’t cost you anything extra to stay for Saturday.Speaker A:
Amazing.Speaker B:
Yeah, so I thought that’d be kind of. Kind of cool for everybody. And we Got great teachers as always. We have Emory Lester coming back, Don Sternberg, Rex. Ralph McGee’s doing all, all the beginners, Kenny Smith and Jeff Huffman on guitars, Ron Stewart doing banjo and fiddle. And still I totally decide on the bass teacher yet. But we have. We’ll have a great bass bass teacher too. So it’s turned into a full blown bluegrass camp. And then this year we get to have my, my, my. One of my heroes and a dear friend of mine that I’ve got to record something with in the last few years. Mr. Doyle also’s gonna come and do some special stuff where I’m gonna. I think I thought it’d be cool to have everybody to just have. Do like a question and answer about his or me interview him about his career and then maybe have a question and answer. Because I think a lot of folks, A lot of these young folks maybe not know, maybe don’t know how all his career started, you know, and everything he’s been through. So I thought that’d be a great education for everybody. And she’s a great guy. Once he gets there, I know how he’ll be. He’s. He’s. He loves it. He loves it like we do. So he’ll. Absolutely, you know, so it’s gonna be a lot of fun. I’m just really looking forward to it.Speaker A:
That’s amazing too. I’m glad to see that he got out and played. He’s done some live shows this year too, from. Yeah, been retired for a minute there. But you can’t, can’t keep him from playing.Speaker B:
No, man. No, sir. You know, we. He and I recorded Happy Go Lucky a few years ago. When he come in the studio. We released that as a single. And then while we, While we were in there, he was playing all these other tunes and I said, he played one. I said, did you write that? He’s like, yeah, now if you play another one. He’s like, did you write that? Yeah. I said, man, there’s some crazy tunes. He said, he said, I want to get around to recording some of these one of these days. I said, well, you know, we are in a studio, so we, we did end up cutting another. Another one or two. So.Speaker A:
Amazing.Speaker B:
Yeah, I got that, that one in the can, so that was a lot of fun. And he was like that there, man. I just thought, you know, I thought he might want to come in and just cut the stuff and go. Which is totally understandable. But. But he didn’t. He just hung out. It was. We just had a blast in there that day, so.Speaker A:
Well, speaking of. Speaking of cutting tracks, today you’re releasing this single called Uncle Herschel with some pretty spectacular players along with yourself. And let’s talk a little bit about who that song is a tribute to.Speaker B:
Yes, it’s a tribute to my dear friend and really a second father to me, Mr. Herschel Sizemore, who I first heard. I first heard playing with the Shendor cutups in Camp Springs, North Carolina, probably the same year, I think, right after them, right after Shando Cups. So I got. I got to hear Herschel playing, I’m sure a lore, and then. Then right after that, the Greek came on. So I got to hear Ricky Skaggs playing his lore, and I got to play his lore after that. And I was like 12 years old or something. So that was. That was. That was a fun day to look at the Beetle like. Like in mandolins, because those guys were killing it.Speaker A:
Oh, my gosh. Yeah.Speaker B:
Yeah.Speaker A:
So let’s talk about. Let’s talk about the track first. Then we’ll talk a little bit about, like, kind of your relationship that you. That you had with Herschel. But, you know, the song is in B, which is perfect, obviously, for Herschel.Speaker B:
Right.Speaker A:
And, like, your favorite key to play. And I think you told me one time.Speaker B:
Well, I just. I guess I just done it so much. Like all the bands I’ve played in, it just happened to be kind of my thing, I guess. But, yeah, I do. I really do. Like. I do like it. But, yeah, the. The folks I got with me, it’s a really ideal. I just came with the. The name of it a long time ago. And me and Matt Flinder were talking about this past week that he said. He said, uncle Herschel, he said, that’s like they have Uncle Herschel’s breakfast at Cracker Barrel. And I said, yeah, man, I said, that’s where I get. That’s where I’ve seen it at. Because we stopped at Cracker Barrel so many times, I thought, man, I gotta write a tune called. Called Uncle Herschel and dedicated to Uncle. To Herschel. And that’s back when Herschel was still alive, of course. And anyway, we ended up doing this thing and I. I thought it was obvious. I’ve been friends with Ronnie McCurry since. Since I started playing professionally. I was 19, he was probably 17 or 16 or something. And so we’ve seen each other at a lot of the festivals back. Back then, and so. And he’s just, you know, he’s just like Dale. He’s just all those boys are just the salt of the earth, you know, And. And plus, I’ve been friends with Sierra since she was a little girl. She used to. I remember playing some of her at IBMA when she was just really, really small. But she’s always been a great player and just was the nicest person ever. So I. I saw them and I thought, man, that’d be a pretty, Pretty cool combination of the. The old guard and the new guard, too, Whatever. So I thought that’d be a. A great combo. So we get. I don’t forget them. And then we got Ron Stewart to play banjo and Aubrey Haney’s playing fiddle, and Jeff Huffman’s playing guitar and Zach McClam’s playing. Playing bass. So we went out to Nashville to cut. Cut it. And I think it turned out they got pretty, Pretty good and tried to put just a couple little nods to Herschel in the song that maybe something that you’d heard before, so at least it sounded, you know. Herschel definitely didn’t write it, but I wanted to sound. Sound Herschel Ish.Speaker A:
Oh, man. The minute. The minute it kicks off, you know, you can tell it’s.Speaker B:
Yeah, right.Speaker A:
It’s killer. How long ago did you write this tune?Speaker B:
Probably two or three years ago, at least. And I just had it in mind to do it at some point. And, you know, I. I always question how good anything I write is, so I’m like, I don’t know if this is good or not. And I said, it’s wrong. And Sierra, they’re like, oh, man, I really. I love it. I was like, okay. So we ended up cutting it and it’s. They played awesome. And one of my favorite things, too, and Herschel loved it too. And I guess it goes back even to me as, you know, being so excited when the original David Grisman Quintet album came out. I just love harmony mandolins. I just love it. I mean, I love manlines, period. But I just think they sound so cool when you got really cool harmony like that. So we got some really cool two and three part harmony on there.Speaker A:
Yeah, it’s so good. You sent it to me last night, and I’m like, oh, my gosh, so good. I mean, I probably listened to it five times in a row, just like, wow, it’s. What a. What a beautiful tribute, man.Speaker B:
I appreciate it, man. And we got. We’ll have a video coming out too. We got. They got a lot of video footage of. Of us all in the studio, and it’d be some pretty cool surprises. Ron had had a album cover of album that was, I guess, released in Japan of when Herschel was with Dale. So they’re standing, you know, their pictures on the front cover. And I got. Got some other things in there that I’ll everybody see when the video comes out. But it’s going pretty neat tribute, I think.Speaker A:
Where did you. Where’d you record it at?Speaker B:
We recorded at Billy Blue.Speaker A:
Oh, nice. Yeah, awesome, man.Speaker B:
Yeah, so it was. It was really good.Speaker A:
Well, let’s talk about. So how did you go from, you know, being a 12 year old and seeing Herschel play live and then develop this relationship with him?Speaker B:
Yeah, it’s pretty. It’s pretty crazy. So, yeah, me, like I said, I was a big Herschel fan because I was just. I don’t know, it just really hit me. I remember seeing Dole Olson around that time too, with Country Gentlemen and just hearing some people because you hear all different styles. Everybody has a different ear. I totally get it. But just for me, hearing somebody play really clean and clear notes, it was just really got to me. And I thought, man, that’s what I want to do it. I’m still trying to do that. But. But Herschel was just. Everything he played just sound like a bail ring. And, you know, it was just. It was just so clean and clear. And Skaggs was pretty much that way and Doyle was too. So, man, it was just really great to get to see those guys. But so then, you know, as time moves on, Boom Freak breaks up. And by the time I’m 16, I found myself playing in a. In a band with Wes Golding, who was the guitar player with Boom Creek. So as that happened, we ended up playing. You know, at the time I thought, man, I’d love to play JD Crow New south, because I thought that’s a position that, that possibly I could. I could do sometime. You know, back then I could sing a lot higher too, so. But. So when I was playing Rona with, with Wes and Jimmy Haley and Terry Balcom walked in and they. At halftime, they. I said, man, I’m gonna talk to you. And he said, we’re leaving Dole. Or I don’t know if it was leaving they leaving Dole or Dole leaving them. But either way, it was a split up, so something that I never expected. So I ended up playing with those guys and that’s how I met Ronnie, you know. And then I got to see Herschel a little bit more then, but not a ton. But during a little after that time, John Lawless was starting to accutab books. And I transcribed at least one album. I’ll take at least a Bounce Away album. Maybe the Back in Business album, too.Speaker A:
Oh, no.Speaker B:
Yeah. And Herschel sent me a note and said he, you know, he was just being very kind like he always was, but he was. He said, I, you know, there’s nobody I’d rather have do it than you. I thought. I didn’t know you really knew who I was really, but that’s cool. So then we started recording at Debbie Shea, and he didn’t live all that far from Duboche, so he’d come down and hang out with us at studio and let me play all his lores, you know, or whatever. And I played them on some recordings around the. That was probably. That was a little bit. Let me. A little bit later. But I knew I got to play with him. I mean, I got to hang out with him a lot during the third time out years, too, which was 89 to about 93 or something like that for me. And then also with a Blue Ridge thing, too. And then I thought about. I was wanting to buy lore and I. I’ve had mine now 30 years. So around that time. So we’ve been friends a lot longer than that because at that time he was. He had. He was coming up breaking different. Different old mans for me to play on. And I ended up getting one that I known prior to that, about 10 years or so, but just the greatest guy with. So it got the point where we were just calling each other when I was on the road. He knew I was around by myself a lot, so he’d always call and check on me, you know, and say, you know, where are you going? Or whatever. And then we talk about balance and, you know, stuff forever. And then occasionally I just called him up and say, hey, what you doing? And he’d say, nothing. Where you at? Because he knows if I’d say that, then I’m probably pretty close to his house. So if I’m coming out, if I was going up that way, I’d say I’d do that. And he’d say. I say, I’m about 20 minutes from your exit. He said, well, come on by. So every time I do that, I’d come by and he’d have like six. A couch full of mandolins already set up for me, you know. And he said, play this one a little bit. I’ll see what you think of this one now. I’ll try. He said, I tried some bridges on this over here now. Some new bridge tops on this One. Don’t you see what you think about it? I remember saying, yeah, herself. I think it does sound better, you know, by what I remember. And he said. I said, how many bridges tops did you try on this, Man 1 He said, 26.Speaker A:
Oh, my God.Speaker B:
I said, lord have mercy. And I said, I need to bring my mans up here and let you drive them out because I don’t have that kind of patience. But yeah, but he was just. And then getting to record a couple of albums with him, you know, like I was. He wanted to play the. I played twin mans on his last couple of albums. And actually played guitar on both of them too, which I didn’t really even expect to do at the time. So I played on like Charmaine. I played a lead break on that one. And then on the last album, the second day, Jimmy Hayley wasn’t there. So I played all the guitar and I played all the breaks. That’s on that album. I played quite a bit more, but it was like, just. Just fun playing all that twin stuff with Herschel, you know.Speaker A:
Oh, my gosh.Speaker B:
Yeah.Speaker A:
I can’t even imagine.Speaker B:
Yeah, it was so cool. But. And we just got closer and, you know, as time went on and my dad passed away now eight years ago or something like this, and. And then me and Herschel got even, even closer and when he got those got down and sick and they told him that he may not have but so much time. His son told me that. He said, my dad said there’s two people he wanted to see and you was the first name on the list. Oh, wow. And I said, well, I’ll. I’ll be up there then. If you want to see me, I’m coming. So I play. We played a festival in camp, Sports, funny calls. It was Camp Springs. I went, played Camp Springs with my band and I was off the next day. So I went up to his house, hung out with him, and then come back Camp Springs and play with a third time at Reunion. So this guy that’s full circle. Almost come back to Camp Springs, where I was at when I was 12 years old watching Herschel. But yeah, it was pretty crazy.Speaker A:
I remember talking to you. And again, I don’t even remember if. I don’t remember if it was just in person talking about her, if we talked about on the podcast. Because kind of blurs all together now, but.Speaker B:
Right.Speaker A:
You know, I remember you saying like you were trying to go up there as he was, you know, so you could learn how these songs were played. So these tunes, the way he played them, and the way he meant them to be played was. Was, you know, kept intact. I just always thought that was such an amazing thing to do because we talked about this too, is. I, I think he’s just so underrated as. As a player. Like, his name should be. Should be up there with everybody. But you had a pretty good point, is he didn’t really stick with a band, per se, which, you know, probably back at that time, that was probably the way to really get your name out there a little bit more, maybe.Speaker B:
Yeah. Yeah, I think you’re right. I think it. That’s the only reason I can figure out because he was such a good, great player and he had so many offers, you know, I think he had. I know he had offered to play with flattened Scruggs one time.Speaker A:
Wow.Speaker B:
And turned it down.Speaker A:
No kidding.Speaker B:
Yeah, man. So, I mean, he was. They. Everybody knew who he was and how good he was, but he just, he wanted. He had to make, you know, he wanted to make sure he made a living and. And brought his kids up right. And I respect him for that, for sure.Speaker A:
Yeah. What did, so what did he do outside of music?Speaker B:
He. He worked through two or three different jobs, and I’m not sure at one time he just worked at Lowe’s. But that was later on in his. Later on in his life. So I’m not sure if he had a certain trade or whatever. But. Yeah, I, I, you know, I played all those tunes since I was a kid. That’s one that my daddy. It’s funny because it’s. Again, all kind of comes full circle. But my dad never. We were sitting around the house, he never really would call. I don’t ever remember him calling out but two or three tunes for me. He said, hey, play me this or play me that. But it was usually, hey, play. Play Rebecca for me. Then I get to be that good of friends with rehearsal, you know, so I’ve been studying that tune since I was probably 12 years old or however, whenever it come out, maybe 16 or 17, whatever come out. But. Yeah, so I’ve always tried to, you know, Even the last 10 years or whatever, I’ve go up there and say, hey, all right, Herschel, check me out. Is this. This is exactly like you’re doing it. I mean, been playing it for me or whatever. And he. And the cool thing about Herschel, too, though, he was. Which I. Which I totally get. All these songs morph a little bit as you play them through the years, you know, so you might play something. So I’VE heard all these recordings of him playing. Then I. Then I found a Sandor Cutups reunion of him playing Rebecca. And evidently he was really feeling it that night and he played it different and you hear the spunk in it, you know. Yeah. And I was like, oh, I gotta put. I gotta have those licks to put in there now if he’s gonna play them. I know. So I, he. I mean, the last day I went there and I spent. Spent the day with him and I said, man, is there anything on this song that you think that I’m not doing exactly right? He said, you got as close as anybody that I’ve ever heard play it. I said, well, well, that’s pretty good, I guess.Speaker A:
And that. Dude, that’s a. I. I don’t want to say the player’s name because a lot of people would know, but I. We were at a jam at IBMA and somebody called Rebecca out and after we got done, he was like, you know, he’s like, I really don’t like playing that song very often in jams. He’s like. Because everybody plays it wrong. He’s like, nobody ever plays it right. Like, it’s just so funny because it was just like, you know, it’s. It’s kind of got a. It’s a twisty tune, man.Speaker B:
Yes, it is. And even that first little run, that’s the really, really big melody part of it, you know, is. Is different. But. Yeah, it’s. You’re right, it’s. It’s. It’s totally different. But he was. And he was just prolific songwriter too. He just sat around and write songs. I mean, he was just. He was underrated in that aspect too, I think.Speaker A:
Totally.Speaker B:
Yeah.Speaker A:
Yeah. What are some of the things that you think made us playing? Like some of the techniques. I mean, you got to spend time with them and you know, like that, that clear playing thing like that, like that you have and like Doyle has. And that’s a. That’s tough to achieve, you know. Do you know what kind of some of the stuff that he did to get that way?Speaker B:
Well, I mean, of course he had that sound in his head. I think you got to have. Whatever you’re going to do, you got to have that sound in your head before you can ever think about trying to get it and, and just working at it, you know, Working at so hard. I not. I didn’t really. I. I not talked to him, to him about that at times and he tell me how much he had played and I tell him how much I Played, you know, when I was a kid, you know, playing, you know, 10 or 12 hours on a weekend day. On weekend days or something, you know, and he did. Said, said the same thing, but he just, he. He had that. He had that sound down and that bounce, you know, that little. I always, when I teach it at camp, I just call it the, the Herschel Roll or the Herschel Size More roll with that, that thing on the, on the two strings where you get that little bouncy thing when he’s holding a double stop position. It’s just so. Just so cool, you know? But even then. And just, Just to show you. And I get it too, because, I mean, I’ve. I’ve not been able to play for like a week, and I come back and I feel like my hands don’t know each other anymore. Totally. Yeah. And he said. He told me at the end, like, him and Bobby Osborne were thinking about doing album together in the last 10 years of his life, I guess. And he. He talked to me about it on some of my drives, you know, and I said, yeah, man, that’d be great. And then one day he’s Call me. He said, alan, I’ve just decided that it would be too much work for me to get a play in back to where I would be happy with it. And I said. I said, man, I totally get it. I totally get that because it takes, you know, like. But I’ve heard some guys say, you know, if you don’t play. If you don’t play one day, you’re not gaining ground, you’re losing ground. So if you don’t. So if you don’t play for a week, you’ve lost. You’re not as good as you were a week ago, probably so. And so Herschel used that, you know.Speaker A:
Yeah. I mean, even just warming up before a gig is a huge difference than going into a gig cold, even if it’s a few minutes. I mean, I’m always.Speaker B:
Yes.Speaker A:
Like, I can tell whenever I didn’t spend enough time just getting my hands coordinated. It’s.Speaker B:
Right.Speaker A:
It’s a nightmare. I can’t imagine, you know, being at the level of. Of like, you or Herschel playing wise and being like, oh, my goodness.Speaker B:
Right. You know. Right. So I. I totally understood what he was saying there.Speaker A:
Yeah. And I suppose too, at that point he’s got, like, that reputation to uphold. And that’s, That’s, That’s a tough decision. I mean, I think maybe there’s definitely artists in different genres. I would say that maybe should Think the same thing about going out and, you know, like, if. If you’re losing an edge and you can’t do what you used to do, you know, it’s. It’s kind of. It’s good to hold yourself to a standard, I think.Speaker B:
Yeah, I think it’s great. I think it was really good for him to do, and he was able to do it. I understand some folks have to get out and play maybe to make a living or something, you know, even when they’re older. I get that. But, man, I don’t. I don’t want to. If I can. I can help it. If I get to that point where it’s. It’s just. I’m not happy with my playing anymore,Speaker A:
you know, I don’t think a guy like Keith Richards from the Rolling Stones needs money, you know? I mean, like, good Lord, that guy’s like, what is going on here, man?Speaker B:
There’s no way.Speaker A:
Just stay home, buddy.Speaker B:
Yeah. You don’t need to go play a bluegrass first.Speaker A:
Oh, exactly, man. What. What do you think of, like, all the, you know, kind of lessons? It could be a life lesson or a playing lesson or both. But what’s. What’s something that you may be learned from Herschel that you really hang on to?Speaker B:
I think it’s just an overall thing in which I was already. I’m lucky that I had such a good dad, and he was. And he was very. He’s probably the most honest guy I’ve ever met in my life. And Herschel’s right there with him. I mean, they’re. They. So just being around both of those guys, you know, I knew I wanted to be like that. I didn’t want to be like, you know, I didn’t want to be the other way. I wanted my word to be as good as my bond, you know, and I got that from my grandpa also. But Herschel was very much. Everything is on the up and up. Everybody knows what’s going on. There’s never any. You know, he was just honest as the day is long, man. And just. That’s. That’s a. That’s a big life lesson, I think.Speaker A:
Yeah, yeah, for sure.Speaker B:
And just all. I mean, just a. Morally everything about. Everything about him, you know, it’s just this. If rehearsal tells you something, you didn’t have to worry about it because he had no filter. He was. What it was coming out was, was the honest truth as he saw it. So which I, like,Speaker A:
did he have. Did he have a mandolin ever? I mean, it sounds like he’s a bit of a mandolin trader. And I mean, obviously his. His lore was probably killer sounding and his. I’m sure his red diamond he had. But did he ever have one on that couch when you went over? They were like, oh, man.Speaker B:
Well, yeah, the Rebecca Manly is all the other ones are great, were great. But that was my favorite lore that he had. Man dad. And it’s more. It was one of the more plain backs that I’ve ever seen. And his son still has that man one.Speaker A:
Oh, good.Speaker B:
Yeah, so I know they’ve. I think they’ve sold a lot of things, but he still has that man one. But it just shows you you don’t have to have the, you know, the prettiest wood in the world for it to sound great. Because I’ve played it at maybe two or three shows since he passed away and they brought it with the same strings that. That were on it when he passed away. And it still sounds great. Yeah, so it’s. That’s probably my favorite. But like you said, he’s. He’s had so many great manlines and it’s just unbelievable, the knowledge he had of setting up a man one, too. I mean, I’m just. I’m nowhere near that level.Speaker A:
That’s funny. That was literally. My next question was, like, what was his action like? Like, did he have high action, low action?Speaker B:
No, it was. It wasn’t super low, but it was low enough. But I’d say medium, you know, fairly medium, so he could bear down on it.Speaker A:
I would have guessed that. I think just because he’s. That, I mean, just the quickness and the. And the tone that he got just sounded like it was, you know, it would seem to me, anyway, you would have to have sort of easier action to play some of those tunes.Speaker B:
Oh, yeah, yeah, definitely. Because, I mean, you know, he was a big guy for sure too, but I know one of my funniest. Well, kind of funny, but kind of scary for me too, when I, you know, like somebody. I’ve been in the studio with him and Bobby Hicks and both of them asked me what I think about their playing before, and I’m like, what? I think about what they just played, you know, or whatever. And I. I think the one time, because they knew I would tell. I guess they knew I’d tell them the truth or maybe they didn’t. I don’t know. I don’t know if I think Herschel did. I’m not sure if Bobby Hicks knew I’d tell him the truth, but he just looked Me, I said. I said. I said, sounded really good. And he said, can I do it better? Bobby Hicks did. And I said, yeah. He said, and after that, man, we were. But we were really buddies after that. I guess he thought. He thought, well, this guy’s gonna tell me the truth, you know? And we had to cut. We had to cut in the same room, which is unheard of these days. So. So I’m. I’m thinking, man, I got the pressure on me. If I mess up, Bobby Hicks is going to kill me. I tried to make sure I didn’t. No, but he was super. He was really good. Good to me, too. He even had one of my man ones, which he told me at one of the camps one time, he said, I got one of those Bobby Mail Gibson Mans. I said, are you kidding me? He said, no, no. I said, man, I think it’s the coolest thing on the planet that you got one of my. One of my signature Marylands. That is so cool.Speaker A:
Oh, what an honor that would be.Speaker B:
I know it is. That’s what the first thing I thought, man, that’s. That’s so cool. Herschel was the same way.Speaker A:
Yeah. Have you bought. I know you tried to. Last time I was up at your place, I remember we were talking about your. You’re like, yeah, anytime I see him, I try to buy them just to see, you know, like if this one’s. But. Yeah. Have you forgotten any recently? In the last couple years, I boughtSpeaker B:
three or three or four more and sold. Sold them.Speaker A:
Nice.Speaker B:
But Herschel did the same thing. He said, what do you think about that? I said, that’s really good. He said, I do better. I said, yeah. So he come back. I said, yeah, you’re right. I said, it is better. But about that. That’s pretty cool when somebody you. You look up to that much, ask your opinion, you know.Speaker A:
Now, was he how you got into playing the red diamond?Speaker B:
Well, yeah, kind of. Yeah. Yeah, now that you mentioned it, yeah. Yeah. He already had a red diamond before I ever. Before I ever did. And I just. And I. I was lucky enough on this. The story you want. You want to hear, but it’s pretty cool. I had a really. Another really good friend that kind of reminds me of Herschel because he is a no filter guy, very upstanding guy that I was giving lessons to, and I had no idea, you know, I don’t. I don’t try to check out people’s finances that I’m giving lessons to or nothing or become friends with, but I guess he’s pretty well. Pretty. Pretty well off financially. And one day he just says. And he knew I liked the Red Diamonds, but I was. He knew I was also trying to find something that I wanted to play that was close to my lore when I couldn’t play my lore, you know, like what we talked about. You and I’ve talked about on the. On the phone about not wanting to fly maybe with your primary instrument or a really old instrument like that all the time. So we’re doing a lesson one day. He just says, are you. Do you have any, you know, contracts with a mailing maker at the. At the. At this time? I said, no. He said, well, good, because I have a July 9th red diamond on the way to your house. Yeah. So he sent me a July 9th. Just gave it to me.Speaker A:
Amazing.Speaker B:
If you don’t like it, just send it back or whatever. But it turned out to be just a killer, man. So that’s the one I’m. That’s the one. I’ll play a good bit with Boston Range.Speaker A:
Oh, that’s awesome. Yeah. And you’re still playing with Boston Range quite a bit too, huh?Speaker B:
Yeah, yeah, still doing. Still doing that and still doing my band some and then just doing a bunch of recording and giving. Giving lessons. And I’m kind of limited, limiting myself to about three camps per year and which one of which is always mine. So I’ve done two now at this point. I’ve done two this year and just waiting. Waiting on mine now. Nice.Speaker A:
What was the other one you did? Swan and Noah and then you did. What was the other one?Speaker B:
I did Manly Camp north also this year.Speaker A:
Oh, cool, man. That’s awesome.Speaker B:
Yeah, that’s all. That’s always a fun time, too. That’s a really good one.Speaker A:
Oh, I bet.Speaker B:
Yeah.Speaker A:
So if you had to pick. Do you have a. Do you have a couple Herschel Sizemore favorite tunes that maybe people might not be as familiar with?Speaker B:
Yeah, I really like. Joyce’s Waltz is a killer, killer tune. Foreign. And we’re going to be doing a. By the way, this would be a good thing to add. We’re going to be doing a Herschel Sizemore tribute show at the Floyd Country Store Aug. 22, and another one of his. Oh, well, I kind of think of myself as a student of Herschel, too, but one of his students, his band is going to open up for us and they’re going to do a few Herschel tunes too. And then we’re going to. Then we’re going to integrate as many Herschel tunes as we can in our show and make the whole thing just a tribute to Herschel.Speaker A:
Oh, my gosh. That’s going to be awesome.Speaker B:
Yes. That’s gonna be really cool. And being at Floyd Country Store, that’s where I went again. Coming full circle. When I was a kid, we lived about an hour from there. And back then, this is the. This is crazy. But back then, I would save up my money priming tobacco as a kid at 7 or 8, 9, 10 years old, whatever. And if you drive up there, these really windy roads get up there. And they would have. If you bought eight albums, you got a ninth one free. Oh, really? So every month, I. Me and daddy would make the trek up there, and that’s how come I have about 600 albums in my collection. Yep. So it’s gonna be cool because I hadn’t really been up. I played a show up there with a new quicksilver that was outside of the place. It was a basement we went into back then to buy the records. Remember? I remember Wanda Dalton there all the time. Just super nice. It was Randall Hilton’s sister and. But we’ve done a show outside there, but I don’t know that I’ve been back really since. Since 85 to there. So that’s. It’s gonna be really cool. Yeah. And another one of my. Listen, we’re talking about songs. Another one that I taught at camp. This. This week is called Tacoma. It’. Sam. Maybe G minor. It’s another. Another cool thing. But he’s got so many cool. So cool, cool tunes.Speaker A:
So many cool ones. I picked up one of them on Bounce Away. I guess it must have been.Speaker B:
Yes. Yeah, that’s the. That’s. That’s. That’s the king of them.Speaker A:
Oh, yeah. Yeah, it was. That’s my favorite thing to do whenever I’m traveling. I had to play up in Michigan, so anytime we stop anywhere, the first thing I check, even if it’s just a gas station, like record stores nearby.Speaker B:
Right, right. And always look this vers eagle on there is just one of the best I’ve ever heard.Speaker A:
Unbelievable. Yeah, unbelievable. And I’d had that on CD and, like, on my phone for. For years, but, like, that was always one of the ones. Like, I have a little list in my phone of, like, I always look for and.Speaker B:
Right.Speaker A:
You know, the bluegrass section is always usually pretty small, no matter where you go, unfortunately. But it makes it a little bit easier. But, yeah, when I saw that one,Speaker B:
I’m like, oh, yes, exactly.Speaker A:
Well, man. Well, dude, it is. The song is so good. People are absolutely gonna love it. I mean, I. I don’t know how you couldn’t. Especially if you’re listening to this. You obviously like mandolin. This has got three of the best on there, and it’s a just. It’s just. It’s a great tribute, and. And I. I love it. I’m so happy that this is coming out for people to hear.Speaker B:
I appreciate it, Daniel. I think it’s gonna be really good. Ronnie and Sierra made it really a. And all the players really just made a super standout recording, and I’m. I’m proud to be a part of it.Speaker A:
Well, man. Well, hopefully I’ll see you. God, I would love to come up and see Doyle up there for a second.Speaker B:
Yeah. Come on up, man.Speaker A:
Cool, cool, cool. Well, Alan, thank you for, as always, for taking the time, buddy. I really do appreciate it. You’re one of my favorite players, one of my favorite people to talk to, and it’s just cool to catch up with you whenever we get a chance.Speaker B:
I appreciate. Daniel, I really do appreciate everything you do for the man community also.Speaker A:
Oh, thanks, man. That means a lot. All right, thank you so much to Alan for doing the podcast once again. The new song is available everywhere. It’s on all the streaming services. It’s on YouTube. And don’t forget about Alan’s camp coming up here in the fall with special guest Doyle Lawson. Amazing. I mean, he’s always got an incredible lineup every year, but Doyle Lawson, that is pretty cool. All right, have a fantastic week. Cheers, everybody.
Pinecast 2026