The Mandolins and Beer Podcasdt #320 Drury Anderson on Mountain Grass Unit, Appalachian Smoke, Shania Twain and Finding the Band’s Sound

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My guest this week is Drury Anderson from the band Mountain Grass unit. It’s been almost 2 years since I had Drury on and he’s back to talk about their brand new album called Appalachian Smoke (available Aug.28th)**, recording with Shania Twain, having more time in the studio than they’ve ever had, songwriting, practicing and coffee! **

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As Always a HUGE thank you to all of my sponsor’s that make this podcast possible each week!

Drury Anderson on Mountain Grass Unit, Appalachian Smoke, Shania Twain and Finding the Band’s Sound

A lot has changed for Drury Anderson and Mountain Grass Unit since his last visit to the Mandolins and Beer Podcast in 2024.

The Alabama-born band has gone from one of the most talked-about young groups in bluegrass to a rapidly growing national act, touring relentlessly, signing with Dualtone Records, recording with Grammy-winning producer Vance Powell, and even getting an unexpected invitation to record with Shania Twain in the Bahamas.

Now Mountain Grass Unit is preparing to release what Drury considers the band’s most complete statement yet: Appalachian Smoke.

On this episode of the Mandolins and Beer Podcast, Drury joins Daniel Patrick to talk about the remarkable two years Mountain Grass Unit has experienced, the making of the new record, his growth as a mandolin player, songwriting, Berklee, touring, social media, and the realities of building a career as a young musician.

The story behind the new album is particularly interesting.

Unlike previous Mountain Grass Unit recordings, Appalachian Smoke was made with something bluegrass bands don’t always have in abundance: time.

Working with acclaimed producer Vance Powell at Sputnik Sound in Nashville, the band was able to spend weeks experimenting, recording, listening, and then returning to songs to make them better.

They also made an important musical decision.

No click track.

Instead, Mountain Grass Unit focused on capturing the natural push and pull of the band playing together.

The result, according to Drury, is finally a Mountain Grass Unit record that sounds like what audiences experience at one of their shows.

But perhaps the most interesting part of this conversation is what it reveals about the band’s growth.

Mountain Grass Unit isn’t succeeding simply because its members are exceptional instrumentalists.

Drury talks openly about songwriting as a job, treating writing sessions like a nine-to-five, learning how to market a modern band, creating social media content, selling merchandise, uploading live shows, and understanding that making music professionally requires paying attention to the business part of the music business.

At the same time, he’s still a student of the mandolin.

Drury discusses what he learned at Berklee from Joe K. Walsh, transcribing everyone from jazz musicians to Chris Thile and Mike Marshall, studying Bach, experimenting with harmony, and discovering that some of the most important lessons about playing mandolin can’t be learned alone in a practice room.

Sometimes you have to learn them onstage.

Full Transcription Below

Well, man, it is an absolute pleasure to to talk to my next guest. He was on in 2024, and at that point. his band was doing, I would say, really good. And it’s just been even, even bigger, bigger mountains climbed with Mountain Grass Unit. Drury Anderson, how’s it going, bud?Speaker B:

Hey, good. How are you doing, Daniel?Speaker A:

I’m doing good, man. Thank you for doing the podcast again.Speaker B:

Yeah, thanks for having me. I’m, uh, I’m pretty excited to be on. A lot has happened since we, we last chatted.Speaker A:

I was writing down some of the things that I’ve seen going on in your guys’s world. And it’s, it’s crazy. And some of it is like even kind of reached outside of the realms of bluegrass a little bit. Not that you’re the band themselves, but some of the— like, you just performed with a couple— well, you performed with a pretty big-name pop star.Speaker B:

Yeah.Speaker A:

Who was that?Speaker B:

Shania Twain.Speaker A:

Unbelievable, dude.Speaker B:

Yeah, that was That was quite an experience. Um, uh, I— yeah, I don’t even know where to begin with that. It was just out of the blue, you know?Speaker A:

Yeah. How does— like, you just get a call from like a manager being like, you guys aren’t gonna believe this?Speaker B:

Yeah. So it kind of started with, um, we, we were all practicing down in the basement of, uh, Luke’s house. We were in Birmingham because we— and, um, We, uh, we were, we were playing there and our manager Don called us and was like, all right, well, this is just something that just falls out of the sky, but, uh, Shania Twain has been listening to bluegrass bands and feels like you’d be a good fit. So next week she’s gonna fly you to the Bahamas, um, and y’all are gonna record there for a week. Wow.Speaker A:

Um, and so we would—Speaker B:

yeah, oh my God, we went down there And recorded, I’d say, probably like 10 songs or so. Um, I would— I think 2 songs actually made the album. Um, which is, you know, plenty fine for us. But yeah, it was a great experience. Shania is— I mean, she’s an expert at producing. Um, she knows exactly what she wants. And she sat there and told us exactly what she wanted and got a really good product based on that. And I’m just pretty astounded, you know. Obviously it was just us, Shania, and the, uh, engineer in there. But, uh, going back and listening to the rest of the album, you know, they had people like T-Bone Burnett and stuff on there. So it was really cool to be part of that.Speaker A:

I’m— I’m honestly even surprised she was there because you hear so many people who do sessions and it’s just like, nah, I didn’t know they were you know, that person wasn’t there. No, we just— it was just the studio people. That’s incredible, man.Speaker B:

I couldn’t believe it either. It was absurd. Um, she put us in one of her little, uh, I guess condo apartment things, and she’d come up for breakfast and like just hang out. It was, it was unreal.Speaker A:

Wow, man. Yeah, well, that’s— congratulations on that. That’s amazing.Speaker B:

Thank you so much. Thank you.Speaker A:

Oh, for sure. And then you guys have— speaking of recording, you have a brand new album out. It comes out next week. It’s Appalachian Smoke. It’s So freaking good, man. Great songs, buddy.Speaker B:

Dude, thank you so much. We, um, we’ve, we really tried to spend a lot of time getting that the way we wanted it. Um, and the way we’ve done records in the past is with a click, and I think just without having a metronome in this, uh, particular recording was like a huge, uh, bonus for the sound. Um, and we just got the vinyl back, and like, I don’t think it really hit me, like, you know, what the final product was like until I, you know, took it off the digital format and really listened to it on vinyl. And, uh, man, I’m just— I’m so happy to get it out to everybody.Speaker A:

Oh my gosh. Yeah, I am ordering the vinyl. Uh, I saw the pre-order on there. There’s a colored vinyl variant out there though too, right?Speaker B:

Yeah, there’s a couple. There’s like this, like Um, dark green kind of mist vinyl, which is pretty cool. My personal favorite is this tie-dye one. I forget what the actual color is, but it’s like, it’s like a, it’s like a bluish green with like little red bits of tie-dye. And I mean, it’s, it’s wicked cool.Speaker A:

Awesome. Well, that’s— yeah, I went to, um, because you guys are on a label now, Dual Tone, right?Speaker B:

Dual Tone. Yep. Yeah, Nashville. Yeah.Speaker A:

So I went to their website, but I just saw the black and the CD. So, but I was like, no, I swear I saw a variant. So I’ll go to your website.Speaker B:

There’s a bunch of them. Um, I think what’s going on is each company has like a different, um, variant. So Dual Tone’s doing the 180g high-def black vinyl. We’re selling the green one, I believe. And then if you go to Seasick Records, um, in Birmingham, um, or go to their website, I think they carry the, the tie-dye.Speaker A:

Variant. Awesome.Speaker B:

Yeah.Speaker A:

Awesome, man. I, uh, I, I’m so excited. The album sounds great. Before we dig too much into that, I do want to just touch base with— you have a side hustle too that I want people to know about before we get too far into this, because I think it’s pretty amazing that you even have time to have a side hustle. But, uh, it fits, I think, your personality. So let’s talk about that just real quick before we talk about this album.Speaker B:

Yeah, totally. I’ve been roasting coffee for about a year and a half now, and it’s been a really fun learning curve for me. And yeah, like you said, it’s— I don’t really know if I do have time to do it all, but I’d like to pretend. So yeah, I’ve got a 2-kilogram roaster at my house and The company’s called D-Law Coffee, and I’ve been doing that for a little while now, and it’s been really fun. And honestly, my goal is to— I’m glad you brought it up because my goal really is to start integrating it into, you know, the bluegrass musician’s palate, if you will. Just get people to try it all over. And yeah.Speaker A:

That’s great, man. I love it. That’s awesome. Well, congrats. It seems like it’s doing well.Speaker B:

Yeah, thanks. Thanks.Speaker A:

So now that we talked coffee, let’s get into, uh, let’s get into this album. So who, who produced the album?Speaker B:

So Vance Powell did it. Um, Vance Powell works at Sputnik Sound here in Nashville. Um, he’s got a studio called Sputnik Sound. which is down in Berry Hill. And he’s done— he’s worked on Stapleton’s Traveler album. He’s produced a lot of the Phish albums. He worked with Phish for a little bit as their livestream technician, and as well just did Daniel Donato’s new record coming out here in a couple days, Rhyme Into Roberts. But, um, he’s a fantastic, um, producer, and he has an assistant producer, Cohen Terry, who also was there the whole time. And I mean, I don’t have enough good things to say about those 2, man. I mean, they’re just like— they had direction, but they also had, uh, patience, you know? And like, we got in there and we had, I guess, 3 weeks on the front half and 2 in the back, I think, split by a trip to Australia in the middle, which really made things interesting.Speaker A:

Yeah.Speaker B:

Wow. Um, but, uh, yeah, it was just like, I mean, I know you’ve— you can relate to like having just a couple days to get a project. Um, I think every musician has been there, like having just a few days to get out the project you want, you know. And to finally have the budget to where record company can, like, back you up and give you that, you know, 3 or 4 weeks that you need to really, like, get all the songs done and say, okay, they’re all done. But what if we go back in and really get them done? You know, it’s like a huge thing.Speaker A:

For sure. Well, that’s— that was my first question is because Up until now, you guys have been really kind of doing it mostly like on your own, or like in short, like as I would imagine the average bluegrass, uh, experience, you know what I mean? Like you have, if you’re lucky, you have a week to knock every single thing out. A lot of projects seems to be, and like a lot of people I’ve interviewed on this podcast, that seems to be the average bluegrass timeframe they kind of have before it goes to mixing and stuff.Speaker B:

Right.Speaker A:

To have 5 weeks Yeah, with the guy, by the way, I asked because I thought it was Vance Powell. I thought I saw it, but I didn’t want to be incorrect. But I mean, like, he’s, he’s engineered, mixed, or produced everything from like, like Jack White and Alicia Keys, the James Bond theme song.Speaker B:

Yeah, he’s done a lot, man. He’s, um, crazy.Speaker A:

Thiele’s Sleep with One Eye Open.Speaker B:

I mean, like, yeah, he did the, um, he did the Thiele and Michael Dave’s duo album. Um, and it was funny about that. It’s like they recorded it all on like, you know, 2-track or whatever. I don’t know exactly what they did, but they recorded it all on, on actual tape, right? Like, Thiele apparently was just like, it doesn’t sound dirty enough. Like, we need to eat— we need it even dirtier, you know? It’s like— And, and Vance is one of those guys, you know, it’s like if you come to them You know, if you come to him with a, with a, with an issue like that, you know, he’s, he’s, he’s, he’s not gonna be one to fight you back on it. He’s, he’s gonna be like, man, totally. Like, and that’s, that’s a cool, um, that’s a cool quality to have if you also have good direction as well, you know. And I, I think there’s like a line between like maybe a producer that’s like, can’t somehow see another idea versus a producer that agrees with every idea. And your ideal producer is someone that’s like a perfect balance between the two, you know, because you want them to be a little strong-armed, you know, like they’re the producer, you know, like they have opinions. And if you trust in their work, then you go with that. But every once in a while when you feel like it’s a good direction and you want to kind of put the foot down, someone who’s willing to go with those punches is, is the ideal producer. And that is by every means Vance, you know, so that, that’s fantastic. It was a really great experience.Speaker A:

Was it overwhelming at first to work with somebody with like that pedigree? Like, had you met him prior to going into the studio?Speaker B:

Yeah, we had dinner with him. And, you know, once he started cracking his jokes, like right on the Right off the bat, we were kind of like, okay, this, this guy’s cool. Like, we’re chilling, you know, because like, I mean, man, we— there’s nothing serious about Mountain Grass Unit. I mean, we were cutting jokes even in the most, uh, extreme of times. So it’s pretty funny to have someone like that like keep that mood up, you know. And, uh, so he, he was literally the perfect fit. I couldn’t think about anyone else more perfect. And we actually, since then, got in the studio with Hayes Carl and cut another tune just because we loved Vance so much. And so we’ve got another one of those songs that is going to be released soon, but I’m not really sure I’m supposed to say when it’s going to be released and all that yet.Speaker A:

No worries. Hayes Carl’s awesome, man.Speaker B:

He’s fantastic. Yeah, yeah. And just to see his process, you know, like, that was also really fun. It’s just, he’s— I mean, he’s someone that I grew up listening to. My parents always put me on Hayes Carl and To see him, like, you know, go to town writing these songs is, is wild. It’s bonkers.Speaker A:

What was the— what do you think the biggest difference was in, like, recording in a thing like this that, you know, compared to, you know, your previous albums? What was the biggest thing that you took from this one? You’re like, wow, this is, this is working with somebody like this, you know?Speaker B:

Well, it was looser. Because we had much more time. Both times we worked with great producers. Mike Harris from Old Crow— well, formerly Old Crow Medicine Show, now playing with a little guy called Noah Kahn.Speaker A:

Oh, geez.Speaker B:

Was fantastic. We worked with him a couple years ago, and I think that’s right when I spoke with you is when we were just finishing that up.Speaker A:

Oh yeah, the EP, right?Speaker B:

Mm-hmm, the EP. Um, and Vance was, you know, also, also very good to work with. But I think the main difference is what you asked, right? Um, just the time, I feel like. I mean, really everything was, was chill. And I think there was nothing different with the producers. They were both fantastic people to work with. And it was more like what we were figuring out, what we wanted, you know? And a lot of that was like, we wanted to do the album a little bit more live. And so, you know, this album is fairly live. We cut the songs. Once we felt like we got a good take, we’d go in and get breaks and vocals or whatever. But for the most part, it’s what you’d hear on stage. And that’s something we’ve always wanted to do, but never really found a way to execute. So, it was like relieving to like finally feel like we have something that like feels like us at a live show, you know? And we’ve never had any material besides Nugs that you could like go on and listen to and be like, okay, this is what I’m gonna get at a Mountain Grass Unit show, you know? And I finally feel like with this, that is the case.Speaker A:

It sounds killer, and it reminds me of like— it just reminds me of a band who I’m already a fan of, and then you can hear the growth on the album. And I don’t mean growth in a, in a, like, a bad way, like, oh yeah, they’re green. I mean, like, wow, holy cow, like, these guys are already good, and now it’s interesting to hear all these, like, all these live shows and all this work you’ve done as a unit come together. And there’s these killer riffs and hooks and great songs and harmonies and, like, obviously great solos. But that’s, that’s just a small part of this album, and, and they’re great solos. So that’s how highly I think people are gonna love this album.Speaker B:

Man, thank you so much. It, uh, that, that means a lot. And like, you know, we— it’s tougher for me to go back, and I, I’m hoping that it’s not as tough for like listeners and stuff because they don’t really have the context of like knowing our, our full growth as much as maybe we do. And, uh, you know, when I go back and listen to the first songs we recorded, I mean, our, our most popular song by far, Where I Land, you know, I recorded when I was, I was 17, you know, and like my— it’s okay, you know, but it’s like I listen to my singing and I kind of just cringe. I can only help but cringe a little bit because it’s just, it’s just not me anymore, you know. I’m, I’m older, and, and that was when I was in high school. And I mean, it’s fine, you know, but if like I could go back and change a lot of those things, I’d love to. And I don’t know, at the end of the day, I think that’s just kind of what, what being in a band is, you know, and putting out different projects. It’s a snapshot of of where you are in that particular time. And, you know, I guess I’ve always kind of felt this way, but right now it feels like we’ve just kind of like nailed it on the head and we’re right where we want to be. Um, and that could change, you know, but for right now, it’s like— I feel like we were putting all the albums before this one in anticipation for Appalachian Smoke, this album. This feels like the The main event.Speaker A:

So the album, for sure, I feel the same way, man. I do feel like this is one of those albums when you’ve— I feel like you guys have figured something out as a band and found it and were able to capture it. Something’s clicking here and you can feel it. And that’s— dude, congratulations on that.Speaker B:

Well, thank you, man. Yeah, I, I, you know, I, I can relate to that 100%, like having listening to an artist and really feeling like they’ve hit their stride. And, you know, that may change, that may change. But for right now, I’m definitely happy. And now it’s just kind of like the process of like, okay, well, we used all our best material. Now we got to start, start, start getting the one that can maybe top that at some point in a couple years or whatever. So—Speaker A:

How— what’s the songwriting process like? Uh, in the band?Speaker B:

You know, for this one, we kind of all brought ideas. And then, um, from like last September when we moved to Nashville all the way up till like late November, we treated it as a 9 to 5. We’d get together and we’d write all day long, and we practice the songs, get voice memos, and we do it again, you know. And we do that like 4 days a week. Monday through Thursday usually. And, uh, you know, after a couple months we kind of looked at it like, well dang, I, you know, I think we’re done here. You know, this, this seems pretty good. And, uh, and we went in and we did it. And of course, you know, we made some changes here and there in the studio, but for the most part all this, all the structure was kind of set out. You know, we’d, we really like to do the format where like we, we plug the computer in on a big screen and we all sit there, you know, we just type our ideas and and, you know, see what we can do for lyrics. And once everybody agrees, everybody agrees. But, you know, we found that it’s like, it’s a lot easier to write with people that, that are in your band, you know, just because like you already kind of have like a similar sense of like musicality, like what, what you want in a song. And that was something I think was definitely really challenging with like, you know, I mentioned the Hayes Carl thing and Actually, this the song “Suspicion” in the new album that was released as a single was written by a really talented singer-songwriter Aubrey Bug. Why do I have this? And, uh, Writing with her, you know, she was fantastic, but it was almost a little, a little challenging than most just because, just because, you know, she comes from a whole different background. She has a whole different idea of how a song should be crafted. And, you know, what’s for us to say that like ours is better, you know? Like, and, and you kind of have to put the trust in the co-write. So You know, at the end of the day, if you’re going to do a co-write, it’s always important to really, you know, have faith in that person’s music and their skills, you know, and lean on them.Speaker A:

So is that the only co-write that you guys did on this album?Speaker B:

Um, yes, we did one with— the one with Aubrey Bug, Suspicion, is the only one. And That was really the one that we got to work with Josiah the most on. Um, that and, um, Earthquake, Josiah helped write. And, um, I mean, to have Josiah in there finally is not only a fantastic player but a songwriter is, is kind of like a new element we haven’t explored yet. So that, that’s been really cool.Speaker A:

Yeah, that’s awesome. What a great guy too.Speaker B:

Yeah, yeah, he, uh, You know, talk about a just well-rounded musician that can play anything and everything. That’s your guy.Speaker A:

Yeah, it’s bonkers, man. Such a great mandolin player too. Good Lord.Speaker B:

I know. I’m so glad he doesn’t pick that thing up on stage because like, Jesus, dude, you can smoke that thing. And like, yeah, and I mean, I’m, you know, Before he joined Mountain Grass Unit, he played a lot of fiddle, but, you know, he was really exploring like becoming a mandolin player, you know, and like that was kind of his main gig.Speaker A:

Yeah, I had him on the podcast, um, as a mandolin player, you know.Speaker B:

Yeah, and I mean, he’s still— I mean, I can almost guarantee he’s down in his basement right now playing his, uh, Jonathan Mann octave mandolin.Speaker A:

Totally, with a bunch of crazy effects and sounding incredible.Speaker B:

Yeah, yeah, with a bunch of crazy effects like he loves doing.Speaker A:

I love it. Um, how is it for someone who tours so much? How do you find time to work on mandolin versus songwriting? Or is it all the same right now? How does that look for you as a mandolin player?Speaker B:

You know, the schedule is just so— like, when we’re on the road, the driving is usually pretty insane. So, you know, I won’t lie, like, When we’re on the road, besides like practicing with the group, I don’t really get like a lot of time. And if I put a little bit more effort in it, you know, I could probably find time to practice on my own. But I just have fun like just playing with the group, you know, and, and solidifying the songs. That, that feels like enough for me. But there’s, there’s rarely songwriting. It just doesn’t, you know, Man, I mean, a lot of the game is just conserving energy, you know, and getting sleep and getting food and getting to the gig, you know. And I hate to say it, but it’s just kind of like one of those things. It’s not a very creative space to be in. I feel like, you know, it’s like, it’s very literal. It’s like, be here on this time, be here on this time. Eat here, sleep here, play gig, go back to bed sort of thing. With taking out the emotions of, like, you know, feeling great about the gig and being excited for the gig and having fun with the group. Like, that’s all in there, of course. But, you know, when you break it down to that level, it’s kind of like, you know, it’s— Like, I won’t lie, like, it’s a grind, you know. Every touring musician knows that, you know. But I mean, at the end of the day, I start thinking about anything else I’d be doing. And dude, I can hardly— like, when I get home, I’m a freaking wreck. Like, I just start like doing anything and everything just to stay occupied.Speaker A:

Yeah, that’s the thing. Well, you said something very important in there, is that, I mean, if you were just ripping mandolin and not worrying about having the band sound better on stage, that could be a potential issue. You know what I mean? Because, because I I think at the end of the day, like, if you’re, if, if you’re in a band, the band, and maybe even more importantly, the song, that should be like the precedent, you know what I mean? Like, Adam Steffi’s intro to, uh, Every Time You Say Goodbye with Alison Krauss is legendary, and it’s not ripping, it’s beautiful and makes the song better.Speaker B:

Yep. You know, I mean I, yeah, I do know, and I 100% agree. And I think that another aspect that you can’t get practicing with yourself is, is timing, man. Like, it’s so important to be locked in with the band, especially as a mandolin player, you know. And like, and I’m, and I’m saying this as something that I still work on, you know, not something that I’ve, I’ve mastered by any means, but it’s just so crucial to like, you know, Find that groove. And, and man, I’ve even been exploring with like— I like to do like almost like guitar-style shapes when, uh, when the guitar ducks out and enters a solo, you know? Because it, it seems like it’s like more of a filling thing than like maybe a straight-up chuck. But then like sometimes like a chuck is like what or a chop is like the, like the, you know, what’s called for. I can think of one example. Like, we were playing Suspicion, our new song, the other day, and there’s this big bridge that leads you into the final chorus, right? And like, in the studio, you can make it sound huge on the last chorus. Like, there’s a million ways to do that. Add more instruments, add more harmonies, automate it. Like, you know, This, that, and the other. But, you know, when, when you’re live and you have only 4 instruments and yourselves to do that, you got to think of like creative ways to like kind of simulate that. And Luke came up with a really cool idea the other day. He said, uh, well, Jerry, why don’t you— right after the last bridge, why don’t you save the most intense mashy chop until that last chorus? I was like, oh, that’s a really cool idea. So I did. I was like kind of soft chopping with, with, with, you know, uh, kind of fluttery chords in there. And then on the very last chorus, it was no tone, just chop, chop, chop, chop. And it like really made this cool effect, like we brought it to like a higher level at the last chorus. And so those sort of things are really cool. There’s a lot you can do with that.Speaker A:

Now, so I, I’m curious of this, and I’ve asked this from a few people. I think I just asked Bronwyn this question too, because, you know, you went to Berklee, and, and your guitar player went to Berklee too, right?Speaker B:

Yep.Speaker A:

And so what is one thing that Berklee totally prepared you for with all this going on now? Because you’re a successful band, great player, great singer. And what’s one thing that you’re like, oh my gosh, you have to just go out on the road to learn this?Speaker B:

That’s a great question. That’s a really great question. Well, Berklee obviously doesn’t get you prepared for the road in any means, and that’s not a slander on Berklee.Speaker A:

No, sure.Speaker B:

It’s just like, if you want to get good at that sort of stuff, you just got to go out and get it. But I’d say as far as Berklee went, I think it’s just the— for me, the hardest thing I had to work on was like just the ability to deliver, you know, work on something and perform it and be able to deliver it, you know? And I don’t know, just the thing I did the most of at Berklee, thanks to Joe K. Walsh, was, you know, he really got me to transcribe a lot of stuff. And a lot of the stuff I would have never like sat down and been like, I want to transcribe that. But when I did, I found that like there was like different like ways to approach, uh, maybe what I’d do traditionally over a certain song.Speaker A:

What would be an example of like one of the tunes?Speaker B:

Um, like he got, he got me to transcribe like a lot of like, like jazz tunes. Um, Like, you know, we’d break down, like, I don’t know, like, you know, Clifford Brown, or, you know, he had me do some, like, Wynton Kelly solos or stuff like that. And then he’d also have me do some more complex, like, hybrids of those where, like, people had already done the research into those jazz musicians and done it in their solos, you know, like Mike Marshall or Chris Thiele or people like that, you know, that— kind of had that background and were doing the transcribing, but then you just transcribed them. But I mean, he’d even have me doing stuff like Bach, you know, and like, that was like really, really fun. And like, really got my memorization up, you know, because like, he challenged me on my, on my final senior PI exam to, to do the whole— a whole Bach sonata without sheet music. So he made me learn it. And I mean, you know, it took me like straight up a year and I still didn’t get it. You know, every once in a while I go back to it and, and try to, you know, play it again. And, um, yeah, I mean, he was like— the stuff he was giving me was was like really challenging. And he really pushed me to, to, to be a better player. And I, you know, I got to give all the credit to him. I don’t think I would be like coming up with some of the stuff I come up with if it weren’t for his like direction and stuff like that. So yeah, I mean, fantastic teacher. And just general theory. I think helped a lot at Berklee. Um, there’s a really fine line with that, you know. Uh, theory’s supposed to be a tool, not like something that keeps you from doing what you want, you know. And like, I really liked this one class. It was called Harmonic— Harmonic Considerations in Improv is what it was called. I took it my last semester, and basically it was a class where you’d take different songs from different eras, like mostly it was like Louis Armstrong and stuff from the ’20s and ’30s and stuff like that, and, um, really dive into it and figure out why they’re making those choices. And the whole point isn’t to just like scan the song, learn it, and then spit it out. The point was to, you know, learn it, find out why they’re making those certain choices, and then see if you can actually do that in you’re playing. Like, one example is, um, without getting too like nerdy here, one example—Speaker A:

It’s a good place to get nerdy.Speaker B:

Okay, cool. Are you familiar with— you’re familiar with Mr. PC by John Coltrane?Speaker A:

Oh yeah.Speaker B:

So Mr. PC is like a, a C minor 7. Like, it’s in the key of C minor, right? So like, it’s like a C minor blues And one of the things we worked on was instead of thinking about it as C minor, thinking about it as what they call like upper structure chords. So like instead of starting on C minor and playing all your, you know, your C minor scale, think about it as E-flat major 7. And, and going about it that way, you know, just stacking the notes a different way and getting the same results. And so like It’s just like all it is at the end of the day, when you think about that stuff, is just a different way to approach it. You know, it’s tricking your brain into thinking, okay, well, maybe instead of just surrounding my C minor scale and just ripping that up and down, you know, if I’m playing an E-flat major 7 chord over a C minor, it gets this really cool C minor 9 sound that maybe you wouldn’t have thought about if You were just trying to play C minor, you know. So that sort of stuff was like really useful, and like stuff that I took from it was like okay, that’s like really cool. Like that’s something that like you know keeps me from just going you know C C C going la la la la la and then come back to C, and then here I am on C again, and I do a little run, and then I’m back to C. You know, like stuff like that. seemed to help. And like, dude, like, I’m so beginner when it comes to all that stuff. Like, I don’t want to make this sound like I’ve mastered anything. Like, I’m just— it’s stuff that’s gotten me on my way. And like, you know, I still have a long way to go, but I feel like, you know, with what I got from Berklee, I’m like able to lead myself into you know, where I want to go from here. Now, on the, on the other side, I haven’t forgot— forgotten the non-Berkeley portion of this question.Speaker A:

Right, right.Speaker B:

No, I love it. The road, which is completely different. Um, I, I think personally speaking that maybe some of the business techniques they might teach at a school such as Berkeley or other schools Uh, it’s a little bit outdated, you know what I mean? I think that it’s harder for professors who have been, you know, teaching at a school for 20 years or whatever. They might not know, or maybe they do, like, what exactly is the perfect strategy to market yourself and go on tour as a band in 2026, you know what I mean?Speaker A:

Dude, there’s people on the road doing it right now that still are— still can’t figure it out, you know?Speaker B:

Yeah, yeah. And like, uh, it’s just tough, you know, because everything’s changing so much. And at the end of the day, right now, I think that everything revolves around social media, you know? And like, if— if I think step one is to build a really strong social media presence, and, and that’s not something we learned from Berkeley. That’s more or less something we learned from greats. Like, I mean, dude, Sam Bush is in his 70s and he’s still got it down. You know what I mean? Like, he understands. Like, he gets, he gets in a video every night and he’s like, hey, y’all. And, you know, he comes up with a little funny little skit and like does it. And it’s like, great. Like, you know, I’m in my 20s watching this and being like, dude, like Sam is like, he’s like hip. Like, he gets it, you know, like he understands it. And I don’t know, How did you explain it besides he’s just always been someone who just listens and observes and finds out what other people are doing and does it? I mean, Bluegrass Revival is a great example of that. It’s just like, he’s like, okay, bluegrass is cool, but let me see if I can just make it a little bit crazier.Speaker A:

Well, I think that’s the thing is I think Sam’s— and this is again why I think bluegrass is so awesome. is like Sam learned from the greats and realized that he got where he is by being able to approach people that are great and asking them questions. And he has not forgotten that and continues to learn from the younger generation as well too, because he’s just, he just never stops learning. And he’s taking it, he seems to take it in from everywhere. You know what I mean?Speaker B:

Yeah.Speaker A:

Older, younger.Speaker B:

Oh dude.Speaker A:

He’s listening. And, and making himself a better player, promoter, just being awesome. You know, that’s a, that’s a great lesson to learn there too.Speaker B:

One of the funniest moments I’ve had with Sam is we were down in Florida and, um, we were about to play this gig with these— this band called Dread Clampett down in Florida. And, um, he was getting up there and I was like just telling him like, Sam, you know, like I just, I just want to let you know, like, dude, I’ve transcribed about everything you’ve ever done, you know, like, and he just like laughs and he’s like, well, good. Maybe you could teach them back to me or something like that. And I just thought that was so funny.Speaker A:

Oh, great guy.Speaker B:

Great dude. Yeah. And like, yeah, you’re exactly right. It’s like he’s always learning and like, The dude does not have a drop of, you know, ego or anything attached. He’s doing it purely for the love of the game. So, I mean, people like that are what make it good.Speaker A:

Well, and it helps having people like you, like you said, like in your 20s, like looking at that and still learning from it. And you guys are very successful. band. And somebody in your position right now still thinking about, like, I mean, like you said, like, we used our great songs, we have to write better songs for the next record. Like, you’re already, like, you recognize that. I think that’s cool, man.Speaker B:

Yeah, thanks. And I mean, you know, with a lot of that does come, like, the feeling of, like, you got work to do, you know, which isn’t always, like, the thing you want to hear, but it’s like, you know, You compare it to other things and you’re like, hey, like, if my hardest part is just getting myself up and getting motivated again, like, I’ve got it made. And, you know, to be honest, man, like, with, with some of our most recent just cool moments and things like that, you know, I’m really— excited for it all, but I always go into it with a little bit of just like an imposter syndrome, you know. It’s just like, I, I can name 50 million musicians that are better than me, you know, and it’s like, I don’t know what I did differently or what we did differently as a band, you know. Um, but it It really is, like, crazy to think about all the success we’ve gotten purely off, you know, things that don’t necessarily revolve around the music, if you will, you know. Um, I mean, we really try to, um, make sure our merch is good and, and You know, we try to make sure we upload to NUGS and, you know, keep our social media present and do our skits and this, that, and the other that goes into it. And, uh, it— yeah, it’s, it’s just crazy what that sort of stuff will, will do.Speaker A:

Well, it’s— it is the music business as, as much as, you know. Yeah, it sucks to say that word. And, and, you know, people like, oh, They’re worried about the business. I’m like, that’s— it’s literally what it is. It’s literally the music business. I mean, and it’s harder than ever, you know. Merch, that’s, that’s kind of where it’s at now. Like, you know, even when I’ve done a couple festivals this year, I’m like, don’t buy my merch if you don’t want to buy my merch, but buy somebody’s merch because there’s 30 bands here and nobody’s buying their music online. So please go to the merch tent and just buy somebody’s merch if you can afford it.Speaker B:

100%.Speaker A:

Because that’s That’s what it’s become. That’s how you can stay on the road. I mean, it’s awesome that you guys had a label to help out, but at the same time, you guys still— that only makes it easier in one small aspect of your world, you know what I mean?Speaker B:

Right.Speaker A:

And so people hearing this go like, well, they’re on a label. That doesn’t make any difference. You know what I mean?Speaker B:

Yeah.Speaker A:

It makes a small difference. That doesn’t pay for gas. It doesn’t pay for hotels. It doesn’t pay for food. All of it, you know?Speaker B:

Yeah, yeah. No, I, I 100% agree. And like, I think to tie that whole thing in that I was saying is like, I feel this imposter syndrome that, you know, I’m like, how did I get with my level of playing to where we’re at right now? And, and the answer is just we’ve kind of done a I guess, an interesting combination of all the business things, you know, that have kind of slowly ticked up to where it’s at now, you know.Speaker A:

Well, also, don’t sell yourself short. You guys are also a great band, and you have great songs, and you’re all great players. And I think one of the things, judging from the outside, is that you have a group of great players that can play together. And that’s hard to do, man, when you have a group of all really, really talented musicians. Because—Speaker B:

Oh man, thank you.Speaker A:

Yeah, of course. And I think the, you know, that’s, I think that’s part of it. Again, judging, who am I to judge? But, you know, that’s what I feel part of it is. I mean, you guys, I don’t know anybody that’s ever saw you guys and not been like, have you heard this? I mean, I guess now I think they would figure I have, but like back when you guys were first starting out, I would get more emails about you guys I can see why, I can see why success is happening. And, you know, as somebody from the outside, so don’t sell yourself short. You got— you’re awesome. And, and you’re a great mandolin player, buddy. Like, so, you know.Speaker B:

Thanks, man.Speaker A:

Of course, you know, that, that imposter syndrome thing though, that’s, it’s a real deal. I, I talk to a lot, a lot of musicians and a lot of people feel the same way. I say just, just keep doing what you’re doing and then basically just keep true to your heart, man. I think too is another thing. Like, buddy, every time I’ve talked to you, you’re just like such a nice human being. I think people have got to hear that in this episode. It radiates. And I think you just love what you do, and people love genuine stuff. And that, you know—Speaker B:

Thanks, man. I mean, I’m, you know, I try to be as genuine as possible. And, you know, I, I’d be lying if I said that, like, every day I’m absolutely stoked on music, you know. And, like, that’s just kind of, like, one of the things when you have, you know, this band is going on 8 years, it’s like there’s a lot of stuff that just kind of feels like a job, and there’s a lot of stuff that’s just really, really fun. And man, regardless of all that, I’m just like super thankful to be in the position that I’m at. And, um, you know, start— I’m so glad this band started from the— from an earlier age, you know. We started it in— when I was in middle school, you know. And, and so to have that kind of position where we’re at right when I get out of school, it was was a blessing, you know?Speaker A:

Yeah, well, you’ve earned it, man, and, uh, I’m super happy for you, and I’m super excited for everybody to hear the new album. And, uh, congratulations on that, and congratulations on the continued success and your tour dates. Lots of road— lots of road dates coming up for you guys.Speaker B:

Yeah, yeah, pray for us, man. Jeez.Speaker A:

Yeah, well, I’ll see you in Charleston, dude.Speaker B:

Yeah, man, you’re playing the house. Oh, I’m so stoked for that music hall. I saw, uh, the Wood Brothers there one time. It was sick.Speaker A:

Oh, did you really? I was probably at the show.Speaker B:

Was that, uh, 2022?Speaker A:

All right, I’ve seen them every time they’ve been there.Speaker B:

Yeah, man, that was a fantastic show.Speaker A:

It sounds like there’s a few places you can buy the record from. Again, I implore everybody, please, if you can afford it— I know, trust me, times are tough, everything’s expensive— but man, if you You know, if you can afford it, if you’re a fan of the band, if you’re a fan of Drury as a player, the albums, I’ll have links to where you can buy it and, um, you know, support your favorite mandolin player.Speaker B:

Yeah, thank you so much. And, and, you know, man, like, at the end of the day, if you gotta stream us, you gotta stream us. Like, I do the same stuff, you know, and, and it’s just kind of the way music goes. And, um, so definitely nothing wrong with checking us out on Spotify or Apple Music or YouTube or whatever as well. We’ve got a really good merch drop that’s going to be at every show on this tour. So just come see us, you know, come see us live and say hey, and that’s all we ask.Speaker A:

Well, congrats on all the success, buddy. It’s really, uh, it’s really amazing to see. I mean, when we talked 2 years ago, it was, uh, amazing to see, and it’s really cool to see hard work paying off for good people, buddy.Speaker B:

Wow, thanks so much, man. It’s, it’s been great talking with you.Speaker A:

All right, thank you so much to Drury for doing the podcast. Thank you so much for listening. Their brand new album Appalachian Smoke comes out on the 28th of August. Uh, in the meantime, if you’re looking for something to listen to after this episode, Thomas Castle’s brand new album is officially out today, and last week Bronwyn’s album came out. So lots of great music out, lots of great music coming out. In the next few weeks and months. And, uh, yeah, just thank you so much for listening. I truly appreciate it. Cheers, everybody! Cheers!

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